CHIUSO The Great Wall

Azy01

Grande Saggio
1 anno con i Goblins! Osservatore Spendaccione! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Aprile 2017
Messaggi
2.758
Località
Tana di Benevento, secondo tunnel ovest verso Tele
Goblons
1.030
Tolkien
Dostoevskij
Philip K. Dick
H.P. Lovecraft
In flames
Metallica
Dungeons & Dragons
Nemesis
Agzaroth sorpreso
Space Hulk
Black Rose Wars
Gloomhaven
Sono uno Stregone
Utente Bgg
Azy01
Lucai, hai ragione ma in questo caso diciamo lo sapevamo un po' diffusamente che era una beta fatta e finita XD

Io sono rimasto dentro col pledge base (meeple) e ti dico che spero nel risultato finale, accettando di correre rischio significativo,
perché la cifra e il pedigree AR lo permetteva.

Senza la storia che AR ha alle spalle sarei corso via a gambe levate XD

Aspettiamo e vediamo che viene fuori, io punto sul fatto che non possono permettersi brutte figure
e lo sanno :)
 

MickPowa

Maestro
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Novembre 2011
Messaggi
874
Località
Cuneo
Goblons
669
E' uscito l'ultimo Update, c'è da vergognarsi pensando a quello che hanno proposto in campagna, io sono rimasto dentro con 1 $ proprio perchè era divertente l'idea di essere dentro a un gioco a caso, finanziato per oltre 1 milione . E confermo che non si sa ancora cosa uscirà fuori....
P.s. non sto facendo polemica
Ciao, non essendo dentro la campagna non ho visto gli update. Hanno stravolto tutto il gioco?
 

Alexandor

Veterano
Osservatore 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
7 Gennaio 2012
Messaggi
848
Località
Osteria Grande (Bologna)
Sito Web
www.flickr.com
Goblons
286
Utente Bgg
farne123
Ma si può uscire??
A sto punto chiederei il rimborso.
Sto gioco non esiste o meglio è in altissimo mare e con il playtesting a distanza dovuto al corona Virus immagino che aborto salterà fuori.
 

MickPowa

Maestro
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Novembre 2011
Messaggi
874
Località
Cuneo
Goblons
669
Ma si può uscire??
A sto punto chiederei il rimborso.
Sto gioco non esiste o meglio è in altissimo mare e con il playtesting a distanza dovuto al corona Virus immagino che aborto salterà fuori.
Non credo che il refound del pledge sia previsto.
 

zetazan

Grande Saggio
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
18 Novembre 2017
Messaggi
2.654
Goblons
1.110
Mi sembra di ricordare che il progetto fosse "soddisfatti o rimborsati" ovvero quando vi arriva lo provate e se vi fa schifo lo mandate indietro e vi rimborsano (in parte)...o sbaglio? Io rimasi fuori dal KS pure col dollarino perché già non mi piaceva questo proporci un gioco in beta ai primi stadi e in più anche quel poco che si sapeva non mi entusiasmava...poi magari sarà un giocone e mi pentirò...ma non penso ;)
 

Lucai

Iniziato
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
17 Gennaio 2018
Messaggi
334
Località
Chiavari
Goblons
95
Utente Bgg
Ingo77
Ciao, non essendo dentro la campagna non ho visto gli update. Hanno stravolto tutto il gioco?

Development update #2
13 aprile 2020
Hey everyone!
First of all - we hope you guys are all safe and healthy in those hard times. Covid-19 pandemic surprised us all and caused global disruption. About 3 weeks ago we have switched to work from home and excluding few inconvenience it is business as usually for us and we are working extremely hard to create a great game for you guys!
Gameplay development
Today, we will have quite a large update summing up changes we made to the gameplay core since the campaign as we are committed to deliver to you a best version of this game that we can. Before we will proceed, few important points, especially for the people new to the way we operate ;)
1) Why are you changing the game after campaign?
This is something we always do - we show you guys prototype during the campaign. It is important milestone, where we can hear your concerns, ideas, feedback as well as to listen to reviewers opinion. We usually at least double the time spend on gamedesign and development after KS campaign.
Also - during the campaign the game have to look good for few games that you will see. On your tables, it needs to play very well through hundreds of games and our developers and testers are preparing them for exactly that!
2) Does this mean, that previous version of those mechanics were bad?
Well, not necessarily but it varies a lot. Sometimes we find our much better solution for some things, sometimes we improve general game flow through those changes, sometimes we get rid of some mechanics that makes the game too complicated with no big fun improvement.
3) Are the changes in this update final?
Nope, nothing is final until we will share with you final files for print. We are using every possible hours to try to make the best out of the game we are working at. Having this in mind, make sure to voice your feedback if you disagree with something, we might take it into serious consideration!
Having said that, lets see what our game authors were working on!

Minor changes:
* Overseers upgrade costs - simplified to easy traceable and memorable form of just one resource in ascending order on all tracks (previously it was for example 2 stone, 1 wood. Now its just one resource. Different resources for different overseers)
* Horseman cost now includes only gold with no spearman (we found out, too many players felt bad having to sacrifice a spearman to get a horse. This fixed it quite nicely, even with bigger gold cost.)
* Action cards lifting - few cards reworked, including an option to play with soldiers only and not sending any workers (this was need to reflect big combat change made).
* At the start of the game - double production from general card instead of fixed resource amount (makes asymmetry aspect better and is easy to implement)

Major changes:
* Tactic cards - reworked to reflect new combat system (more on that later)
* Advisors tweaks/rework - reflecting new changes
* New advisors no longer comes into play mid-season (once player pick a advisory, you do not put a new one. Advisory pool refresh at the end of the season. Previously there was too many options available and constantly introduced new ones leading to analysis paralysis)
* More advisors for higher player counts (6 per 2-3 and 8 per 4-5)
* Points for archer recruitment (you automatically get a point for recruiting archer to offset changes)
* Archer no longer participate in a horde card kill
* Horde system tweaks/rework
* You suffer no additional penalty during breach if you are present on Wall Section it occurred (this motivates players to participate in wall defense as well as mitigate some of the frustration that could happen in some situations).
* Horde cards appears at random Wall Section - fixed ammount of new cards at the beginning of each season (2p -> 3h, 3p -> 4h, 4p -> 6h, 5p -> 7h)
* When there is no free spot for a new horde card - first in row raids killing soldiers and punishing players
* Military upgrades - instead of traditional supervisor track, decreasing the cost of recruitment, you now can upgrade EACH of the unit type (only once). If you want all 3 upgrades, you need to use 3 models as supervisors (decreasing your army). Here are the upgrades:
Spear men - you can save them from death cheaper
Archers - you earn points by shooing with them
Horsemen - move them freely to other Wall sections

Biggest change - combat
As you can see from the changes above there is one big change - it is done to the combat system. As a quick reminder, in previous version when recruiting the soldiers we would put them near the walls and use them only at Wall defense.
This created a few problems:
Problem 1: Too much time spend on deciding where to place soldiers (when it did not had that much impact, but it seemed too). All of this was happening at once, sometimes creating quite huge downtime.
Problem 2: Division of the game into 2 smaller "games" - economic and combat. They seemed to separated apart.
Problem 3: Analysis paralysis - before entering combat phase you had to have in mind all the armies of other players, all their special abilities, number of tactic cards and meditation. All of this culminated in one phase of the game.
Problem 4: Tactic cards were not always that useful or important
Having this in mind, here are the changes we made in the current version:
* now there is no separate phase when all soldiers attack at once
* Soldier attacks (is placed on the horde card) immediately when it is recruited and takes its reward from the horde card spot
* Horde cards are killed immediately after filling its vital spots - then soldiers return behind the Wall and can attack again, thanks to using tactic cards or advisers special abilities.
* Horde cards penetrates wall at the end of the season, as it did before
Generally, it creates much better flow of the game, it feels faster and our decision have direct consequences. It is easier to adjust your strategies and decisions mid-season as well! Here is also how does it adres previously mentioned problems:
Problem 1 and 3: Much more transparent decision making - you move only 1 (or few) soldiers
Problem 2: Combat and economy parts of the game feels much more connected with each other, you can see direct impacts right away! It also lead to some cool combo-interaction (for example you are missing gold, so you are building solder, send him away on a card with gold as reward and with next move you can get extra advisor)
Problem 3: Tactic cards are much more important if you want to get a full use of your army. You can deploy them more then once!
All in all, after those changes we feel the game is much better then it previously was! Please keep in mind, that it is still work in progress and there is tons of play-testing, balancing and polishing ahead of us. But we wanted to share with you those changes directions at this stage - we are really excited how the game core mechanism is shaping up into better and better version!
This is it for this update and next month we will bring you even more news from the development process! Stay safe!
 

MickPowa

Maestro
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Novembre 2011
Messaggi
874
Località
Cuneo
Goblons
669
Development update #2
13 aprile 2020
Hey everyone!
First of all - we hope you guys are all safe and healthy in those hard times. Covid-19 pandemic surprised us all and caused global disruption. About 3 weeks ago we have switched to work from home and excluding few inconvenience it is business as usually for us and we are working extremely hard to create a great game for you guys!
Gameplay development
Today, we will have quite a large update summing up changes we made to the gameplay core since the campaign as we are committed to deliver to you a best version of this game that we can. Before we will proceed, few important points, especially for the people new to the way we operate ;)
1) Why are you changing the game after campaign?
This is something we always do - we show you guys prototype during the campaign. It is important milestone, where we can hear your concerns, ideas, feedback as well as to listen to reviewers opinion. We usually at least double the time spend on gamedesign and development after KS campaign.
Also - during the campaign the game have to look good for few games that you will see. On your tables, it needs to play very well through hundreds of games and our developers and testers are preparing them for exactly that!
2) Does this mean, that previous version of those mechanics were bad?
Well, not necessarily but it varies a lot. Sometimes we find our much better solution for some things, sometimes we improve general game flow through those changes, sometimes we get rid of some mechanics that makes the game too complicated with no big fun improvement.
3) Are the changes in this update final?
Nope, nothing is final until we will share with you final files for print. We are using every possible hours to try to make the best out of the game we are working at. Having this in mind, make sure to voice your feedback if you disagree with something, we might take it into serious consideration!
Having said that, lets see what our game authors were working on!

Minor changes:
* Overseers upgrade costs - simplified to easy traceable and memorable form of just one resource in ascending order on all tracks (previously it was for example 2 stone, 1 wood. Now its just one resource. Different resources for different overseers)
* Horseman cost now includes only gold with no spearman (we found out, too many players felt bad having to sacrifice a spearman to get a horse. This fixed it quite nicely, even with bigger gold cost.)
* Action cards lifting - few cards reworked, including an option to play with soldiers only and not sending any workers (this was need to reflect big combat change made).
* At the start of the game - double production from general card instead of fixed resource amount (makes asymmetry aspect better and is easy to implement)

Major changes:
* Tactic cards - reworked to reflect new combat system (more on that later)
* Advisors tweaks/rework - reflecting new changes
* New advisors no longer comes into play mid-season (once player pick a advisory, you do not put a new one. Advisory pool refresh at the end of the season. Previously there was too many options available and constantly introduced new ones leading to analysis paralysis)
* More advisors for higher player counts (6 per 2-3 and 8 per 4-5)
* Points for archer recruitment (you automatically get a point for recruiting archer to offset changes)
* Archer no longer participate in a horde card kill
* Horde system tweaks/rework
* You suffer no additional penalty during breach if you are present on Wall Section it occurred (this motivates players to participate in wall defense as well as mitigate some of the frustration that could happen in some situations).
* Horde cards appears at random Wall Section - fixed ammount of new cards at the beginning of each season (2p -> 3h, 3p -> 4h, 4p -> 6h, 5p -> 7h)
* When there is no free spot for a new horde card - first in row raids killing soldiers and punishing players
* Military upgrades - instead of traditional supervisor track, decreasing the cost of recruitment, you now can upgrade EACH of the unit type (only once). If you want all 3 upgrades, you need to use 3 models as supervisors (decreasing your army). Here are the upgrades:
Spear men - you can save them from death cheaper
Archers - you earn points by shooing with them
Horsemen - move them freely to other Wall sections

Biggest change - combat
As you can see from the changes above there is one big change - it is done to the combat system. As a quick reminder, in previous version when recruiting the soldiers we would put them near the walls and use them only at Wall defense.
This created a few problems:
Problem 1: Too much time spend on deciding where to place soldiers (when it did not had that much impact, but it seemed too). All of this was happening at once, sometimes creating quite huge downtime.
Problem 2: Division of the game into 2 smaller "games" - economic and combat. They seemed to separated apart.
Problem 3: Analysis paralysis - before entering combat phase you had to have in mind all the armies of other players, all their special abilities, number of tactic cards and meditation. All of this culminated in one phase of the game.
Problem 4: Tactic cards were not always that useful or important
Having this in mind, here are the changes we made in the current version:
* now there is no separate phase when all soldiers attack at once
* Soldier attacks (is placed on the horde card) immediately when it is recruited and takes its reward from the horde card spot
* Horde cards are killed immediately after filling its vital spots - then soldiers return behind the Wall and can attack again, thanks to using tactic cards or advisers special abilities.
* Horde cards penetrates wall at the end of the season, as it did before
Generally, it creates much better flow of the game, it feels faster and our decision have direct consequences. It is easier to adjust your strategies and decisions mid-season as well! Here is also how does it adres previously mentioned problems:
Problem 1 and 3: Much more transparent decision making - you move only 1 (or few) soldiers
Problem 2: Combat and economy parts of the game feels much more connected with each other, you can see direct impacts right away! It also lead to some cool combo-interaction (for example you are missing gold, so you are building solder, send him away on a card with gold as reward and with next move you can get extra advisor)
Problem 3: Tactic cards are much more important if you want to get a full use of your army. You can deploy them more then once!
All in all, after those changes we feel the game is much better then it previously was! Please keep in mind, that it is still work in progress and there is tons of play-testing, balancing and polishing ahead of us. But we wanted to share with you those changes directions at this stage - we are really excited how the game core mechanism is shaping up into better and better version!
This is it for this update and next month we will bring you even more news from the development process! Stay safe!
Si vabbe in pratica quando hanno fatto il ks avevano giusto deciso l'ambientazione e la grafica delle minis.
Un gioco in sto stadio me lo vedo proprio arrivare tra un anno.
 

MickPowa

Maestro
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Novembre 2011
Messaggi
874
Località
Cuneo
Goblons
669
Da un update di qualche giorno fa giugno il gioco dovrebbe essere caricato su TTS
 

fabri77

Veterano
Spendaccione! 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
28 Gennaio 2017
Messaggi
643
Località
ospitaletto
Goblons
161
Io gioco German
Rising Sun
I love Basket
Root
Puerto Rico
I love Magnifico!
Boba sempre con noi
Dunwich Buyers Club
The Goblin Show
El Grande
Nemesis
I love Radio Goblin!
Io gioco col Blu!
Love Feld
Utente Bgg
fabri77soa
Board Game Arena
hitz
Manca meno di un mese alla chiusura del PM e ancora non ho deciso se dar continuità al dollaro che avevo lasciato, chi è dentro che ne pensa? Cosa vi ha convinto?
 

MickPowa

Maestro
1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Novembre 2011
Messaggi
874
Località
Cuneo
Goblons
669
Manca meno di un mese alla chiusura del PM e ancora non ho deciso se dar continuità al dollaro che avevo lasciato, chi è dentro che ne pensa? Cosa vi ha convinto?
L'ho provato una volta su tabletop simulator e mi ha convinto poco.
Premesso che è l'impressione da 1 partita, però mi sembra girare male le varie parti non sono amalgamate bene.
 

Azy01

Grande Saggio
1 anno con i Goblins! Osservatore Spendaccione! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Aprile 2017
Messaggi
2.758
Località
Tana di Benevento, secondo tunnel ovest verso Tele
Goblons
1.030
Tolkien
Dostoevskij
Philip K. Dick
H.P. Lovecraft
In flames
Metallica
Dungeons & Dragons
Nemesis
Agzaroth sorpreso
Space Hulk
Black Rose Wars
Gloomhaven
Sono uno Stregone
Utente Bgg
Azy01
Io sono dentro coi meeple e come immaginavo lo hanno rivoltato come un calzino. È un azzardo: io ho all-in meeple, ma credo che un buona idea sia il base meeple che puoi rischiare se ti stuzzica e non sei convinto.

Dal mio punto di vista credo che alla fine uscirà qualcosa di buono, perché non possono rischiare il contrario.... Ma dal punto di vista del gioco adesso parliamo di un grosso punto interrogativo.
 

dantes

Iniziato
Osservatore 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! 15 anni con i goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
3 Ottobre 2007
Messaggi
314
Località
Bologna
Goblons
198
purtroppo mollai il pledge, poteva essere molto bello ma anche terribile... chi vivrà vedrà..
 

Riwap

Gran Maestro
Spendaccione! 5 anni con i Goblins! 1 anno con i Goblins! Like a Ninja First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
30 Marzo 2016
Messaggi
1.168
Località
Milano
Sito Web
www.ludofunclub.it
Goblons
134
Twilight Struggle
Non sono un Cylon
Rising Sun
Ankh
Twilight Imperium
Scimmia onnipresente
I love Kickstarter
Nemesis
Alien
Io gioco col Nero!
Blood Rage
Jurassic Park
Utente Bgg
Riwap
Board Game Arena
Riwap
Io ho ancora la sterlina ma non so quanto veramente ne possa valer la pena... vedo troppa confusione intorno a questo gioco...
 

Azy01

Grande Saggio
1 anno con i Goblins! Osservatore Spendaccione! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
23 Aprile 2017
Messaggi
2.758
Località
Tana di Benevento, secondo tunnel ovest verso Tele
Goblons
1.030
Tolkien
Dostoevskij
Philip K. Dick
H.P. Lovecraft
In flames
Metallica
Dungeons & Dragons
Nemesis
Agzaroth sorpreso
Space Hulk
Black Rose Wars
Gloomhaven
Sono uno Stregone
Utente Bgg
Azy01
Io lo vivo come un esperimento, voglio vedere cosa riescono a fare date le premesse (gioco in beta e corollari che sapete bene).
Come dicevo io credo che core meeple sia una situazione di rischio calcolato se ve la sentite... altrimenti vivrete felici lo stesso con qualche soldino in più sul conto :)
 

Alexandor

Veterano
Osservatore 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! 10 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
7 Gennaio 2012
Messaggi
848
Località
Osteria Grande (Bologna)
Sito Web
www.flickr.com
Goblons
286
Utente Bgg
farne123
L'ho provato una volta su tabletop simulator e mi ha convinto poco.
Premesso che è l'impressione da 1 partita, però mi sembra girare male le varie parti non sono amalgamate bene.
L'hai poi riprovato? Cos'è che non
ti aveva convinto?
 

Morcar

Illuminato
Like a Ninja 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
26 Aprile 2018
Messaggi
1.570
Goblons
1.262
so che è il dubbio di molti ma alla fine com'è questo gioco?
ho visto che, a discapito della data, il PM è ancora aperto. A leggere il regolamento e vedendo qualche video di gameplay devo ammettere che mi intriga ma non saprei che pensare, specialmente per il fatto che il gioco è pensato da 3 giocatori in su e in 2 c'è un meccanismo automatico che francamente non mi convince. Il mio grosso freno è proprio questo, il numero di giocatori; motivo per cui ho saltato rising sun.
 

Morcar

Illuminato
Like a Ninja 1 anno con i Goblins! 5 anni con i Goblins! First reaction SHOCK!
Registrato
26 Aprile 2018
Messaggi
1.570
Goblons
1.262
sì sì, ho presente. Ho seguito dal d1 questo gioco ed avevo pure piazzato il soldo, poi ritirato.
Mi chiedo solo come gira la versione attuale che dovrebbe essere quella definitiva. Il regolamento me lo sono letto, ho guardato diversi gameplay ma non riesco bene ad inquadrarlo, mi pare un po' ingessato eppure mi ispira.
 
Alto Basso